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remain on the ballot in Colorado is# in the hands of the Su On that and the other political issues# driving the start of the new year,## we turn to the analysis of Brooks and Capehart.# That is New York Times co and Jonathan Capehart, associate# editor for The Washington Post.

Good to see you both.

DAVID AMNA NAWAZ: So President Trump's appeal of the Colorado state# Supreme Court decision to remove him from the## ballot there.

That was on the basis of the# Insurrection Clause of the 14th Amendment.

This, Jonathan, puts the highest court in# the land squarely in the center of one of## the hottest political battles this# year.

What's your reaction to them## taking this case up and how it's going to unfold?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: They have to take# it up, because thi questions.

This ballot access question,# primary ballot access immunity question has never been tested# in our lifetimes or in recent memory.

And the fact that Colorado and Maine# have booted him from the ballot,## Illinois is trying to join the effort,# Minnesota and one other state that## skips -- Michigan have said no, you have# a patchwork of states state decisions.## And I think the prosecutor who you# had on earlier makes a good point.

What we have to look for now is whether# the Supreme Court does a big, broad,## universal decision or goes very, very narrow.

For# a court that puts a lot of emphasis and a lot of## emphasis on the Constitution and what the framers# meant and strict originalist interpretation,## I'm looking forward to seeing them# maybe upholding the Colorado decision.

AMNA NAWAZ: A lot of this does come# down to the wording, right?

That is## part of the appeal argument Mr.# Trump's lawyers have l How do you look at this, David?

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, Colorado ruling.

I wou I look at this -- I'm not a legal scholar.

I# look at this through the c we're living through.

A lot of Americans# have no faith in any of our systems.

A lot## of Americans have no faith in the other half of# the country.

And so we're in danger, in my view,## of coming apart at the seams, of really entering a# terrible era of violence even, political violence.

And so, in my view, if some lawyers# took Donald Trump off the ballot,## half the country would say, that's it.# We're done here.

This is a totally rotten## system.

So I'm hoping the Supreme# Court will not uphold Colorado,## but let the voters decide.

In my view, we# have to let the voters handle this one.

But, then, the Supreme Court is not exactly# without its legitimacy problems either.

AMNA NAWAZ: Right.

DAVID then their part -- then their -- the legitimacy# of the Supreme Court is even more in trouble.

So I'm hoping and expecting that John# Roberts is going to work super hard to# make this 9-0 or 7-2 or something like that,# and maybe, if not restore some legitimacy,## at least not have a legitimacy freefall,# which I think is what we're looking at.

AMNA NAWAZ: Well, I want to read to you# part of a statement we have just from the Trump campaign and, Jonathan, get yo They say in a statement from Steven Cheung,# Mr. Trump's spokesman: "We welcome a fair## hearing at the Supreme Court."

They argue# this is a bad faith election interfering,## voter suppressing argument to remove him# from the ballot.

I'm paraphrasing here.

And,## at the end, they say: "We are confident the# fair-minded Supreme Court will unanimously## affirm the civil rights of President Trump,"# basically allowing him to remain on the Jonathan.

JONATHAN CAPEHAR voter suppressing, Democrat-backed and Biden-led# 14th Amendment-abusing decision, blah, blah, blah.

I focus on that, because that is untrue.# These challenges are being brought by## Republicans in those states challenging his# -- Trump's ability to be on the Republican## primary ballot.

This is -- this has# nothing to do with Democrats.

I mean,## Democrats are surely cheering what's happening,# but they're not the driving force behind this.

And the former president doesn't want# to go there, doesn't even touch it,## tries to reverse it, and put it on Democrats,# when the call is coming from within his own party.

AMNA NAWAZ: Is there a way for the Supreme Court## to weigh in on this and have (L AUGHTER) DAVID BROOKS: No.

or dislike Donald Trump is whether they# think he should be thrown off the ball with a few honorable exceptions.

And so, of# course, people But if it's a 9-0, then I think we have dodged# a bullet.

And if it's 8-1, 7-2 -- as I say,## if it's 6-3, it'll just be another step# toward the fragility of our system.

AMNA NAWAZ: I want to ask you two about tomorrow,## which does mark three year I'm sure you all saw President Biden deliver# that really powerful speech today at Valle Forge in Pennsylvania.

He is making the# threat to American democracy a central## part of his reelection campaign.# What did you make of the speech,## and also him centering that# message for voters right now?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Well, this# is going back to the b First, this was his fifth speech since his# el This is going back to the beginning, because when# he announced he was running for president in 2020,## he zeroed in on Charlottesville and talked# about, this was a fight for the soul of America.

This speech today did not have that as# the title, but that's what he's talking## about.

That's what he talked about today.# That's what he's been talking about in the## previous four speeches.

And I think it is# right for him to do this, to fo because, without democracy, none of the other# things that Americans want will get done.

And to make a focus on the potential# Republican nominee, someone who has said,## even today, saying that I'm only# going to be a dictator for one day,## and all of the other plans that we# know he wants to put in place if he## wins election again, democracy as we know# it will end if Donald Trump is reelected.

And that was a message that the# president put forth today.

He## did it powerfully.

He did it# in a Joe Biden kind of way.

And I think, once you set the table with that,# all the other things he will talk about on the## campaign trail,from the good economy to all the# other things that he's been doing for four years,## will, I think, gel into a bigger message# that by the time we get to the election## there will be a reason to vote for him that# goes beyond fearing for American democracy.

AMNA NAWAZ: David, I know we have talked about# this before.

I mean, the economy has been such## a big part of their message.

And even though# the data sho when you look at the big picture numbers,# you have got 216,000 jobs added in December,## the inflation rate is down at 3.1 percent,# unemployment below 4 percent -- 4 percent, rather,## for nearly two years, and yet that# isn't catching on with voters.

Is this message going to resonate?

DAVID BROOKS: It's important,# but not enough, I thought it was a powerful he will further rebut the# idea that he's out of it,## that he's some doddering old grandpa.

H with fervor and with force.

He's# the guy running this administration.

But there are a couple things.

I have got this## little -- nice little Gallup poll# he AMNA NAWAZ: Oh.

Republicans have a 14-point advantage# over Democrats.

Who do keep the country prosperous?

Republicans# have a 14-point advantage over Democrat So it's super hard to win an election# when the voters think that the other## team is better on the biggest# issues, let alone immigration,## where the Republicans have a huge advantage.

So# he's got to st about the soul of America,racial injustice,# all the stuff that he's been running on.

But, somehow, he has to have an answer that your## life is going to be better# under me than under hi AMNA NAWAZ: It all -- sorry.

Go ahead, J JONATHAN CAPEHART: Listening to David,# I was scribbling down down some notes listening to you# talk about those because it takes me back.

It took me# back to 2022 and the midterm elections.

President Biden did the speech at Independence# Hall that everyone focused on, because, oh,## my God it looks so dark with the red and the# blue, and why is he talking about threats to## democracy when gas prices are high, inflation# is high, so on and so forth?

He doesn't have## his finger on the pulse of America.

He's not# talking about what Americans are talking about.

And then we find out from the 2022# midterm elections that, actually,## people did care.

They did care about# threats to democracy.

And so I see## that -- I listen to the numbers that you --# that you pointed out about folks who aren't## Republicans think that they will be# better on this, that or the other.

Same thing was said in 2022.

And I would argue# that the American elec and sophisticated enough to hold both things# equally and then decide, which is better,## which is better, which person is better# for my safety and security, writ large.

AMNA NAWAZ: It did strike me the number of times# he mentioned former President Trump by name,## which is new and different in many ways.

And... JONATHAN CAPEHART: Forty-six times.

AMNA NAWAZ: (LAUGHTER) which is going to be the first# test stop for Republican primar voters to come together and decide# who they want Ambassador Nikki Haley, Governor# Ron DeSantis are running a distant## second and third.

I just want to play# for you quick weighed in on Mr. Trump when they were asked# about him in town halls last ni NIKKI HALEY (R), Presidential Candidate:# I agree with a lot of his policies,## but the reality is, rightly# or wrongly, chaos follows And we all know that's true.

Chaos# follows him.

And we can't have a## country in disarray and a world on fire# and go through four more years of chaos.

GOV.

RON DESANTIS (R-FL), Presidential Candidate:# I think a 2024 election where the Democrats get to## run against a candidate that is going through all# this stuff, that is going to advantage.

Don't have to agree with any of the# stuff that was done.

That's just the reality.

AMNA NAWAZ: David, what are you watching# for in these final days before Iowa?

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I mean, I think# those are good a little hurt by the fact that Do the average of the polls.

So Trump# can always come ba I was all gearing up for, like, in the last# weeks, things can really change.

Now, I do## think that's true.

We have seen surges in# Iowa.

Obama surged in '08.

Mike Huckabee,## that was a wonderful surge.

But then# I read a statistic that depressed me,## which was that nobody has surged more than 12# percentage points in the last month in Iow And so these -- the number# two and three are way below## 12 points.

So it's looking pretty likely# that Donald Trump is going to win there.

AMNA NAWAZ: How are you seeing it, Jonathan?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Yes.

I what is Donald Trump's actual vote spread# in Iowa versus his lead in the polls?

And if he's leading my 50 points in the polls,# but he only wins by 12 in actual voting,## what does that tell us as we move into New# Hampshire?

That's what I'm looking for.

AMNA NAWAZ: Days to go before those# crucial caucuses and many more ahead.

David Brooks, Jonathan Capehart, thank# you so much.

Always great to see yo JONATHAN CAPEHART: Thanks, Amna.

DAVID BROOKS: Thank you.

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